[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Marvin Demuth » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:02 pm

OLPC G1G1 information refers to some of the donated XO laptops
being for Haiti.

Presumably, there has been no localization work started yet for Haiti.

If anyone has information on this to the contrary, please advise
me as to the work that has been done, and the person doing the work.

Marvin Demuth

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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Edward Cherlin » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:33 pm

On Jan 9, 2008 11:59 AM, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
OLPC G1G1 information refers to some of the donated XO laptops
being for Haiti.

Presumably, there has been no localization work started yet for Haiti.

There is a standard French localization, but it needs thousands more
strings translated, mainly for Etoys.

If you can send some Kreyol speakers our way, please do.

This raises a question for Pootle management: Could Kreyol localizers
work from the existing French, not just from English? That is, can
Pootle be set up to show the source strings and *two* localizations at
the same time, or do people just have to coordinate in two browser
windows?

If anyone has information on this to the contrary, please advise
me as to the work that has been done, and the person doing the work.

See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pootle Explains the process
http://solar.laptop.org:5080/ Our Pootle server, where it all happens.

Marvin Demuth

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--
Edward Cherlin
Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby walter » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:16 pm

Another outstanding question is the French/Creole keyboard. The original sketches, based upon the fr xkb symbol file seemed to be overly complex. Any suggestions would be welcome. (See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Rwanda-B3.png).

-walter

On Jan 9, 2008 3:32 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com (echerlin@gmail.com)> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 11:59 AM, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net (marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
OLPC G1G1 information refers to some of the donated XO laptops
being for Haiti.

Presumably, there has been no localization work started yet for Haiti.


There is a standard French localization, but it needs thousands more
strings translated, mainly for Etoys.

If you can send some Kreyol speakers our way, please do.

This raises a question for Pootle management: Could Kreyol localizers
work from the existing French, not just from English? That is, can
Pootle be set up to show the source strings and *two* localizations at
the same time, or do people just have to coordinate in two browser
windows?

If anyone has information on this to the contrary, please advise
me as to the work that has been done, and the person doing the work.


See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pootle Explains the process
http://solar.laptop.org:5080/ Our Pootle server, where it all happens.

Marvin Demuth

_______________________________________________
Localization mailing list
Localization@lists.laptop.org (Localization@lists.laptop.org)
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization





--
Edward Cherlin
Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay

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http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization





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One Laptop per Child
http://laptop.org
walter
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Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:55 pm

[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby sj » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:21 pm

On Jan 9, 2008 3:32 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 11:59 AM, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
OLPC G1G1 information refers to some of the donated XO laptops
being for Haiti.

Presumably, there has been no localization work started yet for Haiti.

There is a standard French localization, but it needs thousands more
strings translated, mainly for Etoys.

If you can send some Kreyol speakers our way, please do.

This raises a question for Pootle management: Could Kreyol localizers
work from the existing French, not just from English? That is, can
Pootle be set up to show the source strings and *two* localizations at
the same time, or do people just have to coordinate in two browser
windows?

This would be great, but requires a pootle hack. ==> not at the moment.


See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pootle Explains the process
http://solar.laptop.org:5080/ Our Pootle server, where it all happens.

We should add haitian creyole as a language there. I just filed a
trac ticket for it.

SJ


Marvin Demuth

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sj
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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Edward Cherlin » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:11 pm

On Jan 9, 2008 1:21 PM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 3:32 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 11:59 AM, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
OLPC G1G1 information refers to some of the donated XO laptops
being for Haiti.

Presumably, there has been no localization work started yet for Haiti.

There is a standard French localization, but it needs thousands more
strings translated, mainly for Etoys.

If you can send some Kreyol speakers our way, please do.

This raises a question for Pootle management: Could Kreyol localizers
work from the existing French, not just from English? That is, can
Pootle be set up to show the source strings and *two* localizations at
the same time, or do people just have to coordinate in two browser
windows?

This would be great, but requires a pootle hack. ==> not at the moment.

Well, two browser windows isn't great, but will work. Thanks for the response.

See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pootle Explains the process
http://solar.laptop.org:5080/ Our Pootle server, where it all happens.

We should add haitian creyole as a language there. I just filed a
trac ticket for it.

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

We also appear to be short Dari (Eastern Farsi) and Pashto, at least,
for Afghanistan; and Cambodian/Khmer. Would you like to do those
tickets, too?

I don't know when we should try to start Hazaragi and Aimaq for
Afghanistan, in part because there is no public information on what
parts of Afghanistan will be supported through G1G1. The Shi'ite
Hazaras were historically oppressed by all the Sunni tribes, and
still are. Sunni Aimaq are often misclassified as Persian, Hazara, or
Tajik. Hazaragi and Aimaq are sometimes described as dialects of
Farsi. I don't know how accurate this assessment is, and I don't know
how usable either a Farsi or a Dari localization would be to the
Hazara and the Aimaq.

SJ



Marvin Demuth



--
Edward Cherlin
Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Marvin Demuth » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:01 pm

At 05:11 PM 1/9/2008, Edward Cherlin wrote:

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

My Haitian authority -- Jude Augusma -- currently in the States --
advised me on this point earlier today:

<<When we speak of the Haitian language we refer
to Krey
Marvin Demuth
 

[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Sayamindu Dasgupta » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:10 am

Hello all,

On Jan 10, 2008 4:41 AM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 1:21 PM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 3:32 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 11:59 AM, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
OLPC G1G1 information refers to some of the donated XO laptops
being for Haiti.

Presumably, there has been no localization work started yet for Haiti.

There is a standard French localization, but it needs thousands more
strings translated, mainly for Etoys.

If you can send some Kreyol speakers our way, please do.

This raises a question for Pootle management: Could Kreyol localizers
work from the existing French, not just from English? That is, can
Pootle be set up to show the source strings and *two* localizations at
the same time, or do people just have to coordinate in two browser
windows?

This would be great, but requires a pootle hack. ==> not at the moment.

Well, two browser windows isn't great, but will work. Thanks for the response.

See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pootle Explains the process
http://solar.laptop.org:5080/ Our Pootle server, where it all happens.

We should add haitian creyole as a language there. I just filed a
trac ticket for it.


Ack. on the ticket :-). Is there anyone who is willing to take up
admin rights for Kreyol ? I would need such a person to go ahead with
adding a project in Pootle. If anyone is interested, please register
at Pootle and let me know your username.

Also, how many plural forms do Kreyòl have ? Is it the same as in
English, ie, 2 forms (singular and plural) ?

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

We also appear to be short Dari (Eastern Farsi) and Pashto, at least,
for Afghanistan; and Cambodian/Khmer. Would you like to do those
tickets, too?


We have a very active Pashto team actually :-).
See the stats at https://dev.laptop.org/translate/ps/

Warm regards,
Sayamindu




--
Sayamindu Dasgupta
[http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Marvin Demuth » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:56 pm

At 05:11 PM 1/9/2008, Edward Cherlin wrote:

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

I have done some more research. Searching the United Nations web
site, I found that there are 464 references to Creole. There are only five
references to Kreyol. There are zero references to Aiysyen.

The USAID/Haiti page refers to Creole.

My Haitian friend, Jude Augusma, who grew up in rural Haiti, tells me that
the common people say Kreyol.

Perhaps, the terminology should be Creole (Kreyol).

Marvin Demuth

I hope to have some thoughts of the keyboard layout soon.

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[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Edward Cherlin » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:04 pm

On 1/12/08, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
At 05:11 PM 1/9/2008, Edward Cherlin wrote:

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

I have done some more research. Searching the United Nations web
site, I found that there are 464 references to Creole. There are only five
references to Kreyol. There are zero references to Aiysyen.

The USAID/Haiti page refers to Creole.

These are in no way normative for the people of Haiti. Google, while
not normative, is at least unbiased.

about 1,680,000 for haitian creole
about 461,000 for kreyol
about 230 for aiysyen <--misspelled at Ethnologue.org
about 451,000 for ayisyen
about 221,000 for kreyol ayisyen
about 179,000 for kreyol-ayisyen

So, more or less equal in usage for kreyol and ayisyen, and lots of
places where the names are used together. Aiysyen was an error I
copied from Ethnologue.

The Wikipedia Kreyol Main Page/Paj Prensipal says

Ou nan Wikipedya kreyòl ayisyen, ansiklopedi lib ki egziste nan divès lang.

The Haitian Embassy Web site, http://www.haiti.org/, says

Official Languages: Creole, French

The site is mostly in English and standard French, but has examples of
Kreyol. I can understand this written form somewhat, and expect that
I could read my way into it in a day, but I know from experience that
I can't understand a word of spoken Ayisyen. Presumably I would in a
week or two, if I went there.

"Mesdames, Messieurs, Honorables Senateurs et Députés..."

http://www.haiti.org/diskou.htm

DISKOU PREZIDAN REPIBLIK LA
NAN OKAZYON OUVÈTI
SESYON ÒDINÈ PALMAN AN
PALÈ LEJISLATIF

8 JANVYE 2007

Medam, Mesye, Onorab Senatè ak Depite, Konstitisyon an mande m, chak
dezyèm lendi janvye, pou m pale ak Nasyon an atravè noumenm, Senatè,
Depite ki reprezante l, pou m di kijan m wè sitiyasyon peyi a, men
sitou ki pèspektiv pou peyi a.

Ki sitiyasyon peyi a, jodia ? Repons la pa difisil. Li nan tout radyo,
nan tout televizyon, Nan tout jounal, nan tout lari a. Tout moun
konnen l, tout moun ap repete l...

My Haitian friend, Jude Augusma, who grew up in rural Haiti, tells me that
the common people say Kreyol.

Perhaps, the terminology should be Creole (Kreyol).

There are a lot of Creoles. I suggest

Haitian Creole (Kreyòl)

If we are going to use the native name for the language we should
spell it correctly.

Library of Congress version of ISO 6.9-2
http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php

3LA 2LA English French
hat ht Haitian; Haitian Creole haïtien; créole haïtien

and in Kreyòl, it would presumably be

Kreyòl; Ayisyen

Marvin Demuth

I hope to have some thoughts of the keyboard layout soon.

How would it differ from French AZERTY? Are there any extra accented letters?


--
Edward Cherlin
Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
_______________________________________________
Localization mailing list
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Edward Cherlin
 

[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby walter » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:45 pm

How would it differ from French AZERTY? Are there any extra accented letters?

Maybe it wouldn't at all. But I am unsatisfied with the AZERTY layout
I've been exploring to date--based on the X standard symbol file, as
it is really complex and very difficult to image using for
programming.

-walter

On Jan 13, 2008 7:04 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/12/08, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
At 05:11 PM 1/9/2008, Edward Cherlin wrote:

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

I have done some more research. Searching the United Nations web
site, I found that there are 464 references to Creole. There are only five
references to Kreyol. There are zero references to Aiysyen.

The USAID/Haiti page refers to Creole.

These are in no way normative for the people of Haiti. Google, while
not normative, is at least unbiased.

about 1,680,000 for haitian creole
about 461,000 for kreyol
about 230 for aiysyen <--misspelled at Ethnologue.org
about 451,000 for ayisyen
about 221,000 for kreyol ayisyen
about 179,000 for kreyol-ayisyen

So, more or less equal in usage for kreyol and ayisyen, and lots of
places where the names are used together. Aiysyen was an error I
copied from Ethnologue.

The Wikipedia Kreyol Main Page/Paj Prensipal says

Ou nan Wikipedya krey
walter
Support Team
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:55 pm

[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Marvin Demuth » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:28 pm

I have presumed that the language should be
Kreyol, however, with what I have learned
since I wrote earlier, that may not be the
case. I am told that the official language is French,
and that the primary language in the schools is
French. My friend, Jude Augusma, tells me that
in the local schools in the rural area that he is
from, if there are six books used, then five are
in French. He said that he would think that the
education and government authorities would
want French used. He said that when you are in
government offices, the language is French.

Jude tells me that he have never seen keyboards
other than standard English keyboards in Haiti. He
said if you use a computer at any Internet cafe,
the keyboard is a standard English keyboard. My friend
is very knowledgeable in computer technology,
satellite technology and radio technology. He has served
as the director of a small school.

Marvin

At 06:45 PM 1/13/2008, Walter Bender wrote:
How would it differ from French AZERTY? Are
there any extra accented letters?

Maybe it wouldn't at all. But I am unsatisfied with the AZERTY layout
I've been exploring to date--based on the X standard symbol file, as
it is really complex and very difficult to image using for
programming.

-walter

On Jan 13, 2008 7:04 PM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/12/08, Marvin Demuth <marvindemuth@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
At 05:11 PM 1/9/2008, Edward Cherlin wrote:

What language name did you use? I believe that "Kreyol" is the
accepted name and spelling in Kreyol for Haitian Creole French, and
that "Aiysyen" is also acceptable.

I have done some more research. Searching the United Nations web
site, I found that there are 464 references
to Creole. There are only five
references to Kreyol. There are zero references to Aiysyen.

The USAID/Haiti page refers to Creole.

These are in no way normative for the people of Haiti. Google, while
not normative, is at least unbiased.

about 1,680,000 for haitian creole
about 461,000 for kreyol
about 230 for aiysyen <--misspelled at Ethnologue.org
about 451,000 for ayisyen
about 221,000 for kreyol ayisyen
about 179,000 for kreyol-ayisyen

So, more or less equal in usage for kreyol and ayisyen, and lots of
places where the names are used together. Aiysyen was an error I
copied from Ethnologue.

The Wikipedia Kreyol Main Page/Paj Prensipal says

Ou nan Wikipedya krey
Marvin Demuth
 

[Localization] Localization for Haiti (Kreyol)

Postby Marvin Demuth » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:01 pm

Correction:

<<Jude tells me that he has never seen keyboards other than standard
English keyboards in Haiti.>>

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