Replacement Keyboards

[mattym]

Why would any of you allow an infant near a computer be it the XO or any laptop. And for those with children two or older why haven't you explained to them how to handle one. When i was a child and had access to my first computer my father explained to me what to do and what not to do with them. And ever since then i have treated all technology with absolute respect. Don't just give a child an expensive piece of technology and hope they wont destroy it. I'm sitting at a public computer right now and have to punch the space bar between each word i type because its stuck. And this is in a college lab. This is something 18-25 have been using and they still destroy it.
Instead of blaming the makers for "poor materials" why don't you take the time and educate your children on proper computer care. Don't leave them alone with it and expect the best. Would you leave your child with a domesticated lion because its "supposed" to be safe?
As for overseas and the recipients of those laptops, I'm sure they have had little problems with this. They are being given a computer which was previously only in their wildest imagination. I'm sure that even in the worst of conditions they are taking better care of their XO's then your children are. Why? Because if you were poor or computers were in-accessible and someone came to give you one, then you would take care of it like it was a child. Once again i say Would you leave your child(computer) with a domesticated lion(wild child) because its "supposed" to be safe?

P.S. Why are half of you scolding OLPC for sending out "flawed" machines. I don't see any of you building computers to send to those who cant afford them. You should be happy that your investment is actually doing something good for those that don't have.

And yes i believe that you should have access to replacement parts at little to no costs. But when you do this replacement i certainly hope you don't allow your child to treat it the same way again.

[nothunderous]

Am I the only one who thinks that this could be avoided by teaching your kids some discipline and not allowing them to rip the keyboard? Maybe not letting a 2 or 3 year old near it would be a solution also. C'mon people. Take responsibility for your own problems instead of trying to blame the company that made the product. I have a REAL laptop and a 17 month at home. I put it out of her reach when its not in use and instruct her not to touch it when it is in her reach. Its not that hard.

[nothunderous]

Why would any of you allow an infant near a computer be it the XO or any laptop. And for those with children two or older why haven't you explained to them how to handle one. When i was a child and had access to my first computer my father explained to me what to do and what not to do with them. And ever since then i have treated all technology with absolute respect. Don't just give a child an expensive piece of technology and hope they wont destroy it. I'm sitting at a public computer right now and have to punch the space bar between each word i type because its stuck. And this is in a college lab. This is something 18-25 have been using and they still destroy it.
Instead of blaming the makers for "poor materials" why don't you take the time and educate your children on proper computer care. Don't leave them alone with it and expect the best. Would you leave your child with a domesticated lion because its "supposed" to be safe?
As for overseas and the recipients of those laptops, I'm sure they have had little problems with this. They are being given a computer which was previously only in their wildest imagination. I'm sure that even in the worst of conditions they are taking better care of their XO's then your children are. Why? Because if you were poor or computers were in-accessible and someone came to give you one, then you would take care of it like it was a child. Once again i say Would you leave your child(computer) with a domesticated lion(wild child) because its "supposed" to be safe?

P.S. Why are half of you scolding OLPC for sending out "flawed" machines. I don't see any of you building computers to send to those who cant afford them. You should be happy that your investment is actually doing something good for those that don't have.

And yes i believe that you should have access to replacement parts at little to no costs. But when you do this replacement i certainly hope you don't allow your child to treat it the same way again.

I guess I am NOT the only one who feels this way. Thank you for this insightful reply - maybe someone here will get the point.

[Leisureguy]

The kid in the case of the torn keyboard cover that I wrote about is not an infant, is not age 2 or age 3. He will be 5 early next month. He was told about how to handle the computer. He was not being abusive or destructive, he was just typing (with his hands, not with an implement). All I am asking for is a replacement cover and instructions on installing it. Is that really so unreasonable?

And, FWIW, I *do* believe that the cover is too easy to tear, and a more durable material would be desirable. Evidence: the number of covers torn as shown in this thread (which probably represents a minority).

Still, thanks for the lecture on child-rearing. But what I really want is information on how to get a replacement membrane with installation instructions.

[mattym]

Am I the only one who thinks that this could be avoided by teaching your kids some discipline and not allowing them to rip the keyboard? Maybe not letting a 2 or 3 year old near it would be a solution also. C'mon people. Take responsibility for your own problems instead of trying to blame the company that made the product. I have a REAL laptop and a 17 month at home. I put it out of her reach when its not in use and instruct her not to touch it when it is in her reach. Its not that hard.

HIGH FIVE DUDE

My message was not meant to discount the fact that they are breaking. As i said in the post script of my original message "i believe you should be supplied with replacement parts and know how". But with the amount of these things that are not having problems, it is worth spending the time and making sure your child is treating it properly. They don't have to be abusing it to make it break. They could be picking at it or wearing on it without being conscious of it. The fact is its a "membrane" type of material you cant site there rubbing you fingers across it without reason(which is something i often find myself doing with a regular keyboard). And "abuse" could mean more then just scratching or hitting it. Overuse and under use are also things that i would consider a form of abuse.

[Vamoose]

I have a four-year old and the XO is his. I have been teaching him to use it. But if I told him not to pick at the keyboard membrane, that's the first thing he'd do when I wasn't around.

He's naturally curious, like all four-year olds.

Is he too young for the XO? Maybe, but it is challenging him in many good ways, not the least of which is to recognize words and begin to sound them out.

Of course I generally don't tell him no, not, can't, don't, but I do tell him that something may be delicate and that it can be hurt.

As for the keyboard, he knows how to press the keys rather than try to lift them up, but I wouldn't be surprised if one day he begins to disassemble the keyboard by lifting up the membrane. Taking apart things is how one learns and the XO is made to be disassembled. He's naturally adept at taking things apart.

There ought to be a ready stream of replacement parts for just this purpose, as well as for when things break from use or accidents. It is a kid's computer afterall, and kids will be kids.

[nothunderous]

See now, the thing is, its not meant to be taken apart...its not meant to be the most durable and reliable machine on the planet...and its most certainly not meant to be used by 2-5 year olds. They can't even color inside the lines at that age. These are, as stated on the website, mean.t to spur thought, ideas and creative thinking - to see what sorts of things the younger generation can come up with after being exposed to technology in countries and societies wwhere they otherwise wouldn't have access to work with technology.on a regular basis. In no way are they meant for the kids who seem to be receiving them based on the people in this thread. I mean come on...what 2-3 year old needs a laptop? give them a good kids book ar coloring/painting set to be creative with...they don't need access to a pc until 6 or 7 years old, IMO.

Not to negate that there do seem to be problemş here...but if all these probs, or at least most of them, are because of an extreemly young kid, then I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for OLPC to make a recall.

[nothunderous]

Oh, and I find it hard to believe thata an 'almost 5' year old would have a truly in depth understanding of his actions and was just gently tapping away at the keyboard chatting with his buddy when all of a sudden the keys fell off. I just can't believe that. the pics we have seen so far are most certainly cases of misuse.

[tulsiani]

I agree with Leisureguy that the cover is too easy to tear and that OLPC should provide information on how to get a replacement membrane and installation instructions. They should also consider designing a new membrane that is not as easy to tear. With millions of XO's planned, even a failure rate of 1% is too high.

Even with this problem, I still applaud the OLPC mission and am not looking at getting anything for free. And please, let us leave lessons in child rearing out of these forums.

[sanjsrik]

Anyone blaming the parents/kids, do you have any kids of your own to say any of this? I sit with my 4-year old, on my lap and we use the OLPC together. This issue started about a week or 2 after I received the unit, first a small tear at the bottom of the "J" key, then around one side, then the other side, until finally, every time she pushed the "J" key, it would flop around almost hung by the top of the membrane.

Finally, the "J" key came off altogether. She didn't pick at it. However, considering the number of complaints this membrane was obviously not stress tested in any kind of real-world scenario.

I'm just not sure why it is that OLPC wouldn't even respond to the issue. Myself and many others it seems have been having the issue with the keys and the keyboards.

As for the parents who have said that the kids pick at the keys, wouldn't that have been figured out in the design phase if it had been tested properly? Why ARE the keys on the membrane raised? It's not as if it was a necessary reason for this. It was just done and the result is that the membrane IS vulnerable to little fingers.

As well as normal wear and tear from my experience.

[Leisureguy]

The almost 5 year old was sitting in his mother's lap and typing when the tear occurred. Sorry you don't believe it, but please stay on point: how do we get a replacement membrane and instructions?

Slightly off the point, OLPC might want to investigate the use of some stronger material for the cover.

And please: no more talks about how you would rear your children so the problem would not arise for you. Thanks.

[teefal]

BTW, we just finished a pilot with 20 fourth-graders in the Caribbean. All of them brought them home for three months, and *none* of them had a peeled key.

Seems like the problem is limited to toddlers and preschoolers

[Leisureguy]

Could be, though one report above mentioned computer damage from 18-25 year olds. Still: the issue is not that some/many/most never experience cover damage---the issue is how to get a replacement part and instructions when damage does occur.

[pantoshi]

I am not sure if this will help, but there is an instructable online with step-by-step instructions, where someone has replaced their XO keyboard with another keyboard entirely. It is a bit beyond my technical ability right now, however it may be of help those of you who have keyboard issues.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Install ... O-Laptop-/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Finishi ... ard-into-/

Staying out of the debate
PT

[sanjsrik]

I just received this email back from Support:

"Whoops. However, I'm sorry to say that OLPC has not yet set up repair
centers nor do they have any replacement parts available for purchase,
Hopefully both will be available soon. You can watch for announcements
at http://wiki.laptop.org.

Do you know when you received the laptop? The warranty starts on
receipt and not on order - 30 days from receipt.

If you are out of warranty, you might want to try a temporary fix and
glue the flex cover for the J key back on. A strong flexible epoxy
should hold up. The disassembly instructions for the XO are here:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Disassembly

You can remove the flex cover so you don't have to worry about getting
any glue on the XO. If the worse happens and it doesn't work, the
keyboard (including the flex cover) will be a replacement unit and it
shouldn't be too expensive ($20 or so I'd guess)

Your call - of course we don't condone any of this but the XO is
designed to be taken apart and as long as you are out of warranty and
you are comfortable taking apart stuff it might be fun."

So, the warranty for a machine is only for 30 days from receipt? This is a brand new machine, I was never given the option of extending my warranty, and I get 30 days from receipt? This is definitely being referred to Amex as a defective product.

They don't "condone" anyone taking apart the machines but its "designed to be taken apart"? What kind of double meaning is this in a support response?

Nice flip tone in the email too. I have a non-usable machine and this person decides that smiley faces are the way to go.