startup and shutdown time

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startup and shutdown time

Postby kentsin » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:17 am

Despite the low CPU, the startup and shutdown time for the XO-1 is not acceptable.

May be it is a noram for the IT person to wait such a time for the start and stop of a system, but the small child is not capable to wait that long.
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby tsdguy » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:08 pm

What are you basing your opinion on? Research? Personal experience? What's a small child to you? 2? 3? 5? 8? Do you mean a small American child used to having everything available at their instantaneous desire or a small Peruvian child that has never seen a computer before and can now have access to a library of text books in their own language, a device they can draw and write and share with other kids in their area and perhaps see a bit about what's going on in the rest of the world?

Your statement is biased and one of the reasons why projects like OLPC need a lot of support from people who realize that something is better than nothing.

I hope if you put an XO in front of your kids you don't say - "Sorry kids, this bites - look how long it takes to start up" rather "Wow kids, here's a chance for us to share with what kids are using across the world"

Besides - upcoming releases will have suspend and resume for faster startup.

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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby kentsin » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:35 pm

I have experience teaching adults. When the class start, the students were having problems waiting for the computer to boot. There is not attentation to the teacher. The class is in a state of chaos.

I can not speak of the XO-1 design. However, the boot up time should be shorten. May be a sleep mode or other means that allow the maching to boot up fast and response to the student quickly is very important.

In my experience to raise a child, when the child call, respon time is critical. If you do not respon fast enough, they feel ignored. I do not think these should apply to computers just like human, but if you consider how young you want OLPC to reach the children, that much be considered. If you train a whole contury in a wrong way, how bad it will be.

Moreover, the XO-1 is suppose to be a tool they use to get the work done. Consider everytime a child want to do a work, he pull out the tool, and froced to wait. I never saw people walk away and do other things during the boot up wait. I am not an expert of that, but I think even adults do not want a long startup time. This also valid for notebooks in general, people complain about the bootup time for their machine. I beleive for children, a repeative experience like these should be examine by experts in throughly before wide spread implementation.

Technically, making the boot up time faster is doable. Asus shorten the boot up time for eeepc also.
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby davewa » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:43 am

Yes, the XO start-up and shut-down times are fairly long by the standards of a current-generation machine. (I measured 90 seconds for start-up and about the same for shut-down.) On the other hand, I own a four-year-old Dell laptop running Windows XP that takes over TEN MINUTES to get itself to the point where I can actually open an application, due to some sort of screwy software Dell has pre-installed which doesn't play well with Norton Antivirus. Once the Dell is up, it runs fast enough for my needs, though. The same isn't entirely true of the XO.

Complain less about start-up and shut-down times; these happen only once in a while. The more valid complaint is how long it takes the XO to launch an activity (averages five seconds): this is where you really notice that the machine's slow. My guess is that the flash memory is the culprit, since once the activity is launched the machine feels fast enough.

But it's something you can get used to. And I'm old enough to remember machines that loaded programs from paper tape. And took tens of microseconds per instruction. Speed is relative.
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby doug » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:47 pm

I can see there being a problem with a two minute or more wait just for starting the computer. A classroom full of students are not going to be quiet for long while they wait for the computer. Other distractions will take hold and as mentioned, chaos for the teacher is the result. But, maybe doing something like taking roll call during this time would be ok?

When consecutive classes used the computer, the sleep function would help since only the first class would require the diversion during the initial boot up. But if every class required this, some more thought on injecting a short exercise to keep the attention focused while the computers booted.

I would think that even in the 3rd world classroom, the teachers would have problems keeping control while computers booted once the novelty wore off. I say this because, after they become familiar and really get down to using the computers, they'll be less amazed and anxious and less willing to wait without looking for something else to do.

Besides taking roll, I can see this being a good time to do little arm stretches or clapping excercises. Just some little thing to keep them focused on the teacher yet also mentally and maybe physically occupied. I also see this being a reason for a display on the teachers screen showing students computers booting. Something organized like the students( rows, groups, etc ) so the teacher can monitor class readiness before stopping the initial activity only to have everyone wait again for one or two students to push the power button because they missed it or forgot the first time.
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my laptop takes longer time to shutdown

Postby nitesh.dhodi@mottmac-india.com » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:54 am

i have experienced that my laptop takes very long time more than half an hour for shutdown....but it is not take so much time for start-up. so i usualy power off the system. please help....
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Re: my laptop takes longer time to shutdown

Postby doug » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:10 pm

nitesh.dhodi@mottmac-india.com wrote:i have experienced that my laptop takes very long time more than half an hour for shutdown....but it is not take so much time for start-up. so i usualy power off the system. please help....


nitesh, this sounds like something which should be posted to another forum instead of this "open discussion" forum. Maybe the General Questions forum [ viewforum.php?f=2 ]

In the mean time, a few things you might try to help pin down what may be causing the slow shutdown:
1) Try turning on the XO and as soon as you see the full Sugar desktop, shut down the XO. Does it take half and hour to shutdown?

2) Try turning on the XO and then watch to see what the Network neighborhood looks like. See if your XO finds a wireless connection. If it does, try to shut down the XO. Does it take half and hour to shutdown?

3) Try turning on the XO and running one of the activities you have run before( use the Journal ), close the activity and then shut down the XO. Does it take half and hour to shutdown.

4) repeat #3 but for each of the different activities in your Journal to see if any one of those applications is causing the long shutdown.

If #1 is true and it still takes half and hour to shutdown just after starting, the OLPC developers will probably need to get further into what is running on the XO. They will also want to know what version of the software and firmware is running and might ask you to update to the latest software. I believe v656 is the latest "Stable" release but there is v703/Update.1 which is proving to be quite good [ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Update_1 ]. A person from OLPC should instruct you on what to do to solve your problem.
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby KarenXO » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:22 am

Kentsin wrote: "I have experience teaching adults. When the class start, the students were having problems waiting for the computer to boot. There is not attentation to the teacher. The class is in a state of chaos."

I've taught computer classes for adults, too. Usually their attention span is longer than children's, but of course there are always individual differences. Some people are impatient.

Here are a couple of suggestions:

1. If the teacher/school provides the computers (as in my case), have them plugged in and booted up before class starts. In my case, all the students had to do was sign on to their network IDs, which shorted the time considerably.

2. If the students provide their own computers (which is probably how it would work with XOs), have them start up the computers as soon as they arrive. Remind them again as the class is starting. And then have something to say to the class while the computers are booting--introduce yourself (if it's the first class), review what you did in the last class, talk about what you're going to learn today. If the students use their computers at home between classes, you can ask if they've had any questions or problems since the last class that they want to review before you go on to the next lesson. Things like that....

Now, in spite of the above, I would suggest that just once you have the whole class start their computers at the same time and watch the screen as it starts up. What happens? What does it mean? This would be a good early lesson in learning to use the computer, and it will help students to understand why the start up takes a while (the computer is actually doing something!) and recognize any anomalies that may occur.

Hope it helps!
Karen
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby kevenproctor » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:54 pm

We know that computer take few minutes to startup and to shut down.But if you are going to teach the small children they dont want to wait,they just want when you turn on computer the program will run on the monitor screen.It's much better if we do some thing diffrent while we turn on the computer to teach the small children.I am also the teacher of primary section and i always roll call of the students while i turn on the computers.

……………………………………………

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Addiction Recovery Connecticut
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby BillWaggener » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:26 pm

I have to laugh..have any of you people ever started and closed Windows or it's application??? The only PC that I have ever had that is quicker than the XO was the Atari 1040ST .
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Re: startup and shutdown time

Postby KarenXO » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:32 am

BillWaggener wrote: "I have to laugh..have any of you people ever started and closed Windows or it's application???"

I was referring to Windows in my earlier post, although I meant it to be applicable to all computers.... because all computers (all that I've ever seen) take noticeable time to start up and shut down. The slower ones, like the XO, take time because their processors run a little slower; the faster ones, like recent Windows computers, take time because they are faster, so developers and users load them up with more software--and more that loads at start up--and so there's a lot going on beneath the surface. (Not to mention that users often get spoiled and impatient because they expect their pricey machines to be "faster.")

This is not necessarily intended as a complaint. It's the way things are, hence my suggestions for how to deal with it in a classroom.
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