Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Points of views and questions about the OLPC project. What should it be? How could it be better? Where is it needed most? Ask your questions here and let your opinion be known.

Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby doug » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:52 pm

Peter6218 wrote:
The sales resistance is do to what I stated above, not because of Linux or Sugar. Read up on the articles on why OLPC pretty much forced Intel out of the project.


Your stupidity just keeps demonstrating itself.

Why are Intel and Microsoft in business? Ask yourself that and you have shot your entire argument down.

They are in business to MAKE money. Microsoft has proven over the years its ability to use any and all means to destroy competition as has Intel.

You are an even bigger idiot than I thought!!


I'm really starting to wonder if you are not Steve Balmer in disguise. Time to look out for flying chairs maybe?

You should try reading a book called "The Innovator's Dilemma", here's the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemm ... 0066620694

In there is a concept which explains why companies like Microsoft and Intel, who are profit generating businesses yet still must be fearful of startups. I doubt you even spent a second reading up on what Intel did to piss off OLPC and what proof I mentioned. For anybody else who is reading this thread, the facts show that OLPC is a threat to both Microsoft and Intel and facts show that they have both foregone direct profits to prevent particular products from gaining traction. For Microsoft it is Linux and open source software and for Intel it is the AMD powered XO device. There is far far more evidence of Microsoft's willingness to spend millions and even billions on projects which never made a profit themselves but instead, were monopoly protection mechanisms for the Windows product line. That product line is what produces well over 80% of their profits if not 90% and has done so for 15-20 something years.

FYI, I've used Windows, Linux, UNIX, OS/2, DOS and a few others and developed software on most all of them along with having a couple of college degrees in electronics and software. I'm not sure of your qualifications backing your statements but my qualifications back up what I've stated. And like I said, there's lots and lots of proof on particulars if you even care to look it up. Try it, it's not as easy as throwing chairs around the office or bad mouthing others but you just might learn something but then again, you appear to not really want to learn much of anything.
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby supernatendo » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:03 am

I would like to point out a few things to the person so vehemently upset about the XO not using a windows or mac UI.

1. Ubuntu did not really do that much to the Gnome UI, and it certainly is not a windows clone.
2. Just because it took you adults a while to get the XO working because you are so used to the way windows does things, doesnt mean it will be as hard for children who have never used a computer before. They will be eager and will find out how to use it because of their sheer enthusiasm at being able to use something they could have never afforded before.
3. The only software I have not seen implemented in Linux better than Windows are proprietary and commercial high-end Games, and this only due to a lack of commercial interest, Linux is fully capable at running the same quality programs as windows can. everything else non-game related works great and sometimes even surpasses what is available for Windows.
4. Most of those who are upset about the olpc seem to be citizens of already developed countries who purchased through the G1G1 program and didnt really understand what you were buying.
5. Microsoft and Does find the OLPC to be a threat because they know that if developing countries are full of citizens that understand linux better and have more programs for linux than they do for windows microsoft will have a hard time succeeding in such markets in the future.
6. Microsoft should be more worried of google and android which could push microsoft even out of the markets of well-developed countries, android will be the first widespread OS to be used on UMPCs
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby brisalta » Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:33 am

Well said Doug!!! Almost what I would have written if I had the time. Been too busy with work to devote much time responding to the likes of Peter6218. With a few edits your post would make a good email to NN.
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby doug » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:24 pm

Peter6218 wrote:http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8


Here are some more realistic statistics FWIW:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
http://www.e-janco.com/browser.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ ... 061003.htm

<sarcasm>But hey, let us all be lead to salvation by the ever changing marketing choices of one business oriented monopoly. Yes, the world will be a far far better place if we are lead by the nose ring by one company and the children should be taught this in every aspect of their education.</sarcasm>
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby Peter6218 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:07 pm

From your own links :

OS Platform Statistics

Windows XP is the most popular operating system. The windows family counts for nearly 90%:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

Microsoft Continues To Dominate

The free Linux operating systems may be growing in popularity, but it's not slowing down Microsoft.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ ... 050714.htm
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby doug » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:58 pm

Peter6218 wrote: Microsoft Continues To Dominate

The free Linux operating systems may be growing in popularity, but it's not slowing down Microsoft.


gawd, are you still on the kick that every device must run Windows....
rolls eyes, exits tracking this thread.
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby jakeosx » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:35 pm

ooh! ooh! i want to feed the troll!

i think that you, like MS are afraid. afraid of what you may ask? that children, who don't know windows, mac or linux, could grow up not using microsoft.

see if someone knows how a computer works, they can use any (err, almost any) computer. if they only know how windows works, well you are stuck with word.

but, if they understand computers, understand what it is they are doing, then word to wordperfect, to openoffice.org to abiword, no problems. these are just programs, it is the idea 'word processing' that you need to teach.

these laptops are about teaching.

it doesn't matter what a document is written in, once you print it out it is on paper. if you prefer MS Windows and Office, good on you. I use MacOSX and NeoOffice. I have used the Write activity on the XO, and except for the fact that my hands are too big for the keyboard, it works great.

oh, and before you get to the 'once they get to the real world' argument, think of where these are going, lest you forget. 'once they get to the real world' who knows what they will encounter, what decisions their government or corporations will make.

but, if they understand computers, they will be able to adapt to new computer software and ideas. this is the point.
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby Peter6218 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:39 am

but, if they understand computers, they will be able to adapt to new computer software and ideas. this is the point.


Actually it isn't the point.

The point is simply compatibility. The computer, what ever the OS may be, should operate similar to all other computers.

The XO does not. Therefor when the child changes to another machine the same steep learning curve exists.

XO could have done as Asus has and produced a common style of desktop. They didn't.

That's my entire point which the other troll chose to turn into a vendetta against Microsoft.

I run four dual boot systems using some flavour of Windows and a flavour of Linux. No big deal.

To write I prefer Windows running Wordperfect but am capable of using other word processors.

Our "friend" is so blinded by hatred of Microsoft, that he can't see or accept that all the various Linux systems use a similar appearing front end. Wonder if Microsoft refused to hire his marvellous talents?
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby owlgarden » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:53 pm

To me, it's not a question of compatibility, but the costs associated with it. The idea of an entirely
open-source operating system with certain educational apps (also open-source) as the entry point for new computer users, is,in my humble opinion, a totally rational and realistic idea. Operating systems are not graphic user interfaces. Sugar, as a GUI, is evolving and so far it's more difficult to use if you're used to other GUIs. But for a first time experience- and I've seen children (4-7 years old) use this, I think it's pretty great.

Using real world usage statistics don't quite apply to the XO- it's not intentionally competing in the
world of MS windows or Mac OS or Linux, it's collaborating in that world. Certainly, our common experiences with Web Browsers, Mail programs, graphic editors, Flash and Java etc. come from a competitive (corporate to say the least) mindset that has told us to use this stuff. I'm not convinced a 5 year old Mongolian student needs to start with MS or MacOS, and the hardware that supports these OS's might not work as well in a Yurt.

I don't object to other OSes showing up on the XO, if they are optimized (not sloppy), and don't become exclusive. The last thing a learning system needs is an "OS dogma" preventing or limiting the process of learning.
As to my Sugar experience, it works great in my environment (mainly Macs). And yes, I put seamonkey and flash on it (and Opera and a bunch of other stuff) and reminds me of an eMate (though that device was way ahead of it's time) but since the world is largely MS that's what many people expect from a computer- Vista is not what I'd recommend for first time users. (Sugar Vista anyone??) How did people learn Windows in the first place? By asking everyone else how to to do this or that. So, I think using the XO with Sugar would help a child learn how to ask the right questions when confronted with a
strange interface. We are talking about young children here...not aspiring Corporate executives.
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Re: Disappointments Abound - Is the Writing on the Wall?

Postby mattd » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:15 pm

Peter6218 wrote:Our "friend" is so blinded by hatred of Microsoft, that he can't blah blah blah


It's not that he hates Microsoft, it's that you're a dick. And an arrogant one at that.

Peter6218 should have wrote:I'm capable of using multiple OSs and learning new interfaces but stupid 3rd world kids can't learn anything new except where to dig for a different root.


Get over yourself.
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